Talk:The Washouts/@comment-3292369-20180819053618/@comment-3292369-20180820011636

Spike wasn't an antagonist as Owl's Well That End's Well because he was the protagonist, he wasn't in opposition to himself. Villain protagonists are a thing. As for Zesty, yes, she definitely was an antagonist, I don't see why that would be controversial. Her role was essentially the same as Counciler Neighsay's, both are authoritive figures who condemn the protagonist's establishment, who then decide to ignore their standards. Neighsay hasn't actually done anything villainous yet, while he is loathsome he was just doing his job, yet he's still listed. She just differs from the those I listed as she's been a one-shot so far. Spitfire and Fleetfoot were antagonists in Rainbow Falls, but that represents a variation in their characterization, they aren't consistently portrayed as antagonists prior to reformation like those I listed.

Well how about you tell me how to use the forums then instead of just directing me there and then chewing me out when I don't use them correctly? If there is a help manuel I can't find it. Honestly the definition is fine, it keeps stuff like the dragon from Dragonshy or Flurryheart, the problem is in interpretation of the rule. What I see is an argument of semantics that leads to other arbitrary decisions that have nothing to do with the intent the writer had for the character. Lightning Dust only isn't an antagonist by that defintion with the most "generous" interpretation of her character, treating her as if she's utterly insane rather than just a sociopath (it's not an insult, it's just a discription of the combintion of her lack of concern for others, blatant disregard for authority, superficial charm, impulsiveness, and extreme thrill seeking behavior), though even then it's no excuse for her bullying Scootaloo when she wanted to back out. If if it gets to the point where you're debating semantics over whether a gather is an antagonist or not, they are probably an antagonist. People want to know who the bad horses are, not some weird technicalities. What I think it comes down to is Lightning Dust took deliberate action which put other pony's lives in danger, and she refused to change her behavior. Legally she she would be guilty of AT LEAST manslaughter if anyone actually got killed by her stunts.

(Also, I finally went back and rewatched Wonderbolt Academy, and now I'm even MORE confused about why people defend Lightning Dust's behavior, she wasn't really wreckless at all, but ruthless, seems people are just using the terms Rainbow Dash used. The only time she wasn't in control was when she lost control of the tornado, but before she made it she implied she was going to use it to hurt their competitors, and she showed absolutley zero remose after hurting Rainbow Dash's friends. The part that stood out the most though was before, where she got Rainbow Dash to attack the other ponies with her when Spitfire couldn't see them, and then when Rainbow Dash objected she blamed it on their incompotence rather than her actions, that's classic sociopath behavior. It's clear she wasn't being reckless there as she WANTED them to spin out to give her the competitive edge. Maybe she doesn't act antagonistically towards Rainbow Dash, though she still doesn't care when she get's her hurt, but she sure acted antagonistically towards almost everyone else at the academy. )

You can argue it's up to the individial, but that doesn't change the fact she's either in the other section of the characters or antagonists, the individual obviously doesn't get to decide as it's now protected. As it is she's in the in the dead middle of the bloated other characters section (if the physicains and celeberties can be sepperated out then why not the remaning pony families and the villagers) by Bulk Bicep and Ms. Peachbottom, who pretty much represent the two sorts of characters that populate most of the section - reoccuring filler characters and one-time supporting characters. Lightning Dust is neither, and she would be much easier to pick out in the antagonist section. Really the whole reason I got into this was because I was expecting find her there while following a link trial as I figured it would be the fastest way to get to the episode page, but then it took me forever to find her. Another commenter had requested her move and they were just completely ignored, I had no idea there was some BS explanation for her placement. With the criteria being used it's also not clear why it includes the Boy Bullies (who didn't do anything beyond taunting) and Gladmane (who didn't actively oppose Fluttershy and Rarity, they were the ones who went into his affairs).

"A statement such as this is speculative and requires proof."

I gave evidence, namely with the way they are portrayed in The Crystal Empire comics, the gallery of minor antagonists were put together. Iron Will and Lightning Dust were deliberately put in the same bucket as Flim and Flam and pre-reformation changelings. Even beside that though, you can just look at every one of their appearences in the show and contrast that with other characters, they are consistently portrayed as antagonists whenever they appear. While Iron Will has the integrity that Flim and Flam lack, he basically fullfills the same role as them in his episodes by hurting the main characters with his questionable buisinesses. I wouldn't call him a villain by any means, but he's consistently portrayed as an antagonist. In Lightning Dust's orginal appearence, she was basically Gilda 2.0, a friend of Rainbow Daash is a jerk to everyone else, while her latest appearence is more like Flim and Flam and Friendship, where there is a air of legitimacy blown away at the end to show just how immoral the character is. One major difference between these characters and one-shot antagonists like Cherry Jubilee or Sassy Saddles is that when the characters are introduced, the episodes end with lingering animoscity when they typically run away or are banished from their presence or however their closing moments manfiest for that episode. The ironic part is Flim and Flam actually had an episode were they were protagonists (or at least supporting characters on the protagonists side), and arguably Chrysalis was a protagonist in the Mean 6.