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Forums: Index > Wiki discussion > New Features
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Poll showing a majority wanting new features


Greetings everyone,

Following a preliminary poll, it showed a consensus for us to have a discussion about including new features on our Wiki.

Detailed explanations of the features can be found here: Forum:Preliminary Poll - New Features.

As per the previous forum promise, this is now the official forum. I have made three sections for voting/discussion to take place.

Please note: If you oppose all features, you don't need to leave an oppose in all sections, just place an oppose under "all new features". Likewise, if you support all changes, you can leave a singular support underneath the "all new features" section, you don't have to put a support under all. An overall percentage will be tallied and used at the conclusion.

Kind regards,

 343TheGuiltyProphet - Contact
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15:23, January 22, 2020 (UTC)


All New Features

Symbol strong support vote Strong support - My support has nothing to do with being a Global Discussions Moderator or a Councillor for FANDOM but represents my own personal view. I think it's time our Wiki starts to match those around it, providing a social platform (not just chat) that allows people to have discussions that don't fill Wiki Activity and be able to leave a message without having to incorporate basic Wiki markup.

 343TheGuiltyProphet - Contact
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15:23, January 22, 2020 (UTC)

Symbol oppose vote Oppose to all. Gurte(Talk) 15:34, January 22, 2020 (UTC)

Hello, we don't accept comments like this in our criteria so please leave a reason for your opposition otherwise this will not be counted in the final result.  343TheGuiltyProphet - Contact
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15:35, January 22, 2020 (UTC)

Symbol oppose vote Oppose—for the reasons I outlined in no small amount of detail here.

I have said my piece already. The Discussions feature has a history of hostile takeovers that cannot be ignored. Besides the linked breakdown of the problem, this third push for Discussions comes amid the inevitable post-finale exodus and strikes me as a misguided attempt to stir up new activity. Discussions are a different platform requiring different moderators that we could not assemble at our peak. Not only would this move channel activity away from the wiki proper; it would accelerate the flight of us old-timers.

TL;DR: We rightly protested against Discussions when FANDOM started forcing them on our peers. Once enabled, they cannot be disabled. To my knowledge, no one remaining here other than 343 is interested in policing them. They are redundant against wiki-side features like blogs. Opening Pandora's box runs the risk of turning the wiki into something unrecognizable and untamed.

Guildmaster Grovyle (talk) 23:06, January 22, 2020 (UTC)

Symbol oppose vote Oppose Unless we can guarantee an excellent user experience, we should not enable new or different features. Discussions is a nightmare to manage from every possible standpoint. I am not sure those in support quite understand the level of attention Discussions needs for even a moderate level of traffic. And like Guildmaster said, it is a permanent change. Wikia will never turn them off for us should we change our minds. We practically begged to get rid of them on the CoD wiki after we changed our minds and told them we would not moderate them any further. But Wikia's response was to send external moderation our way instead of listen to us. Let's not make ourselves victims as well.

The MLP wiki has always been a content-focused website. Our most active editors and administrators are experts at creating content and thus keeping this website unique and relevant. While they certainly could handle monitoring Discussions, I don't want them to. There are plenty of websites which offer forums and chatrooms for MLP. But there is only one MLP wiki. As for Message Walls, well, they are just inconsequential overall. I guess I am more neutral on those, but some of what I said for Discussions holds true for them as well.  FANMADE_Animated_Derpy_Hooves_desktop_ponies_sprite.gif Sig1.png Sig2.png  02:52, January 23, 2020 (UTC)

Symbol oppose vote Oppose I agree with CoD4's argument that the wiki has been serving better as the well-polished source of official content than as one of many discussion centers. Especially if we are going to include Pony Life content on the site, I think the thinning staff resources will be better applied towards content moderation than forum patrol. As for message walls, problems with erasing messages continue in earnest to this day; I can't imagine its incorporation would do anything but increase the moderation load, given that it makes it easier to erase messages and requires a different change-tracking page altogether to find.Fluffbrain (talk) 05:26, January 23, 2020 (UTC)

I had not even considered this. We have a strict policy against erasing such communications, so my opposition to message walls is now that much stronger. Guildmaster Grovyle (talk) 20:13, January 24, 2020 (UTC)

Symbol oppose vote Oppose Agreeing with almost every point made above mine, I think that discussions are not nearly as polished as they should be and they could be far too much of a hassle for what they offer. The concept of discussions itself isn't particularly a bad one, but the experience, especially from what I've seen and heard from many wikis that have shared a number of users and characteristics with us, is not going to be a very good one at least on this wiki without the proper booming user traffic that you'd need for it. Even if we did have a lot of usages, I still doubt in what it may provide for us. Moderation would also be a problem, considering we only have one person interested in moderating the dozens of "favourite x?" polls that may be wrongly categorised or have other problems.

As for message walls, while I don't really think they're terrible, they don't offer the customizability of talk pages and the main difference to me is that one makes you have to use ~~~~ and : for your messages which isn't that big of a deal.

In the end, I don't think either is too good of an idea at this time and with how Wikia does things especially considering the huge split in the votes which could potentially drive a number of users even further away. http://i.imgur.com/DgihKkh.gifThundermare  (Talk page)http://i.imgur.com/uFz3Sbv.gif 06:22, January 23, 2020 (UTC)

Pictogram voting comment Comment - Just wanted to raise a few points. I understand the feelings regarding how FANDOM imposed discussions on communities. I can completely understand why people would feel this as a hostile and unfair move. But I feel we shouldn't take that into consideration when we consider the benefits when it comes to the Wiki. With regards to moderation, I think we need to look at this as those we were just setting up chat again. Sure, at first - it will be the responsibility of administrators, but just like chat, a community will grow. New candidates for discussion moderation will show - I'm very happy to moderate discussions, something I'm very experienced in doing. Polls of "Who is the best x or y" - I completely agree. But, like many of Wiki's, we can make discussion guidelines that rule out the use of these polls.

 343TheGuiltyProphet - Contact
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13:44, January 24, 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by we shouldn't take it into consideration. How Fandom sells their product to us and behaves if we don't like their product is totally necessary to take into consideration. People don't tend to invest in products that have bad return policies. Also, your sunshine-and-rainbows idea of what Discussions will be is just not realistic, it's almost like you are describing Discussions as a separate website with its own community. Fortunately those already exist, we don't need to become one. We also have a chat: it's on Discord now. If your logic is that it is like "setting chat up again", we can just guide users to our Discord server in some more effective manner instead of activating a feature that fundamentally does not fit this website.  FANMADE_Animated_Derpy_Hooves_desktop_ponies_sprite.gif Sig1.png Sig2.png  17:33, January 24, 2020 (UTC)
To add to what Cod4 said. You need to bear in mind the buzz around MLP is not as strong as it was, and may not pick up to similar levels again. To compare we have the Call of Duty wiki Discussions. As you can see, the post are very low effort and there's hardly any user retention. We've had to remind users on rules multiple times as well as begin to crack down hard on them. Discussions unfortunately only works with certain communities and fandoms, and once you turn it on you can't turn it off. So it's not something you can turn on, try out and then turn off later if it doesn't work out. From my own anecdotal experience with it, you really don't want it because it's just a gateway for one off users to leave pointless comments and never be seen again. Overall it just lowers the quality of your wiki by having your name on it. And I feel these are important things to consider when one votes. 17:55, January 24, 2020 (UTC)
Cod4, I didn't mean that I'm trying to replace the chat and I'm sorry, I don't see it as a fantasy. I have vast experience with discussions and I'd like to think my experience would allow me to have a view that is past "fantasy". My comparison with chat was for comparison only. Meaning that once upon a time, when chat was first started, there were no mods. Then a community grew and mods were selected. I said that to address people concerned about the lack of moderation. A community naturally will grow within discussions and suitable moderator candidates would naturally start to surface. I understand the concern of not being able to turn it off, I really do and that's why I wouldn't propose this unless I truly thought it'd be a good idea. Look at our blog posts for example, they are currently being treated as a discussions page. Why not just have a discussions platform? I honestly don't see what harm it can do to add an extension onto the Wiki that promotes socialisation. Especially since the "new mlp" - along with the comics.  343TheGuiltyProphet - Contact
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00:06, January 25, 2020 (UTC)
If you can point to examples of how Discussions lifted a community out of its demise instead of anecdotes, your argument would sound infinitely more sincere and believable. You keep comparing to chat, well, chat was put on this wiki in 2011, when Season 2 had not even begun. It is now 2020, after the ninth season of the show and the show itself has concluded. You can't compare them, at least not in an honest way. Yes, we will eventually experience the new MLP. But we need to focus on how we will organize new information on this wiki. The harm done by enabling socialization features that we cannot guarantee an excellent user experience for is enormous.
We cannot guarantee an excellent user experience with the current level of activity here. Chat had admins and mods who used it from the start. We don't have a single administrator who has openly expressed a will to moderate discussions except you. One person is not enough. You are basically telling us to not worry about this absolutely huge concern by saying that "suitable moderator candidates would naturally start to surface". What if this doesn't happen? What's your contingency plan? In fact, what are your plans in general for this? Your proposal is to just turn it on. No policies have been proposed, no framework for how it will be managed. If it was not clear the first three times, please listen to it again. Discussions can never be turned off.  FANMADE_Animated_Derpy_Hooves_desktop_ponies_sprite.gif Sig1.png Sig2.png  03:12, January 25, 2020 (UTC)

Just Discussions

Symbol strong support vote Strong support With the season 10 comics on the way, not to mention nine seasons of memories, I think a discussions page would be quite useful for talking about old times, or what we would hope to see in season 10.The Nth Doctor (talk) 20:19, January 22, 2020 (UTC)

Symbol strong support vote Strong support Even though I did not vote, this will be useful for talking about all that happened in the show. Also, we can use it to talk about what we want to happen in the future, like a possible Season 10 or crossover with another show (I want this one to happen). PrincessTwilightSparkle98 (talk) 21:17, January 22, 2020 (UTC)

Just Message Walls

Symbol strong support vote Strong support - I feel the that Message Walls are a excellent upgrade for this wiki and will make messaging more efficient and organize specific topics in the long haul. My major concern with adding a Discussion is an may lead to infighting and trolling between users who are kicked out of the chat rooms. They may need to monitored more closely than blog posts. Dry63 (talk) 18:27, January 22, 2020 (UTC)

Other View

Pictogram voting comment Comment A poll result of 45—36 is not a consensus, and I'm feeling more and more that these features are being pushed and rushed to implementation without properly addressing the concerns around them. (The previous forum regarding this matter was closed before those concerns even could be properly addressed.) ImperfectXIII Wiki signature FANMADE ImperfectXIII OC pixel animation 03:40, January 25, 2020 (UTC)

Pictogram voting comment Comment Where, exactly, on the original forum, is the consensus for making this new one? Unless I am missing something in our very clear guidelines, we operate on consensus here, and the points raised on that forum are heavily against Discussions and only slightly less heavily against Message Walls. Why was this forum created, and furthermore, why was the previous forum closed by the administrator who started it, which is also in direct violation of what is written in our very clear guidelines?  FANMADE_Animated_Derpy_Hooves_desktop_ponies_sprite.gif Sig1.png Sig2.png  17:50, January 24, 2020 (UTC)

The rule regarding admins closing forums they have participated in has been removed. as can be seen here.  343TheGuiltyProphet - Contact
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16:04, January 25, 2020 (UTC)
I can see the guidelines weren't updated to reflect that forum. This has now been ratified.  343TheGuiltyProphet - Contact
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16:07, January 25, 2020 (UTC)

Pictogram voting comment Comment - The previous poll concluded that at least 45 people voted in favour of having them implemented. If I had just implemented them there and then, I'd understand the concern. But I haven't done that. I've merely moved it onto the next phase of discussion - which if it doesn't pass, doesn't go anywhere and nothing changes. It wouldn't have been fair to ignore the voices of 45 people nor would it have been fair to ignore the voices of 36 people. The solution? A conclusion forum where a proper discussion and consensus can take place. I'm sure that's not something to be objected but to be encouraged?

 343TheGuiltyProphet - Contact
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16:04, January 25, 2020 (UTC)

Remember that, in terms of you having theoretically "implemented them there and then", that would have been against the wishes of everyone who voted for something other than "both", not just the people who voted "no to both".Fluffbrain (talk) 17:29, January 25, 2020 (UTC)
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