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Color of Magic Auras/ Are magic auras visible?/The Princess's flowing manes - Theories

Whew, this is going to be a long one!

1.     Colors of magic auras and whether they can change

During season one, the colors of individual characters' magic auras were often inconsistent from episode to episode; for example,

Princess Celestia's magical glow varies throughout season one but is consistently yellow in “Lesson Zero” and “A Canterlot Wedding - Part 2” as well as in season four's new opening sequence.

Rarity's aura is blue in most of her appearances, but it is pink in Look Before You Sleep and also when Rarity cuts off her tail in Part 2 of Mare in the Moon.

Twilight’s aura changes from a light pinkish-purple to a deep magenta colour in season 2 episode “Lesson Zero

Now, can there be any in-universe explanation for this? My theory was maybe the colour of their auras have something to do with their experience. As they get older and more experienced, their aura colour changes to reflect this. But if that’s the case, is it possible for a unicorn’s magic aura colour to fluctuate between dark and light colours before finally changing? I say this because I headcanon that (at least for the first 3 episodes), the air-order of the episodes does not necessarily depict the chronological order of events. I referred to this article () which tries to make a chronological order of the episodes, but in doing so, they have mixed up episodes from season 1 and season 2. Now that would mean taht season 1 episodes which come after “Lesson Zero” would have Twilight with light aura instead of the deep magenta coloured aura. Can you think of any logic behind this?

I also theorized that sometimes the magical aura changes colour to reflect a change in the pony’s personality. For instance, in the first Equestria Girls movie, Sunset's magic aura was cyan (greenish-blue). That is a perfect representation of her envy, sensitive, and moody personality as her being a villain back then. But the second she came back to Equestria (“Mirror Magic”), her aura was red. It shows that she had been developed as a fully-reformed character, such as self-control, ambition, courage, energetic, etc.

While these theories may apply to Sunset Twilight or Rarity, I can’t think of any reason why Celestia’s aura would change color! She’s over a thousand years old and has more wisdom and experience than anypony else in Equestria.  Neither have we seen a change in her personality. So what could be the reason for that?

'2.     'Are Magic Auras Visible?

I’m just going to copy-paste the post here for your convenience. You can also check out the actual post using this link: https://www.reddit.com/r/MLPAnalysis/comments/1hcags/are_magic_auras_visible/

In MLP:FiM, Unicorn magic produces a colored aura which appears both around the horn of the Unicorn casting the spell and around any object which is being affected by that spell. Something that’s not been made clear by the show is whether these colored auras are clearly visible or if they are an audience convenience and the magical effect is invisible. Based on what we’ve seen in the show, it seems to me that magical auras are in fact invisible.

Basically there are three possibilities:

1.      Magic auras are in fact clearly visible to anypony.

2.      Magic auras can be “seen” but only by magic users like Unicorns or Alicorns.

3.      Magic auras are an audience convenience and undetectable to ponies.

For the first possibility there are two episodes which seem to demonstrate magic auras aren’t generally visible. In “Winter Wrap Up” when Twilight enchants the snowplough with the come-to-life spell, Applejack doesn’t notice the spell even though to the entire plough is surrounded by a purple glow. Applejack clearly has her suspicions magic is being used but she doesn’t seem to be able to see it.

Even more interesting is “MMMMystery on the Friendship Express”. There Rarity sneaks past Pinkie’s guard by using her magic to pull down the blinds and darken the room. When we the audience see this scene unfold from inside Pinkie’s head, we don’t see the Rarity’s magical aura the way we normally would from our usual audience viewpoint. Thus it seems pretty definitive that Pinkie (and by extension other Earth ponies) cannot see magical auras.

But maybe magical auras are visible to spell casters? That would seem logical, that magic users could sense when magic was used in their vicinity. However once again the show seems to indicate otherwise - specifically in “A Canterlot Wedding”. Twilight, Celestia, and Shining Armour all fail to detect the change in “Cadance’s” magic aura which would otherwise have revealed her as an impostor. So unless everypony has blue-green color blindness it appears magic users can’t see magical auras either. Spell casters might have some means of detecting magic, but they clearly can’t identify it as easily as we the audience can.

So it appears that the colored magical auras are in fact an audience convenience and Equestria isn’t full of magical light shows.

I was re-watching "Green Isn't Your Color" recently and something occurred to me. During Fluttershy's final runway appearance Twilight "puppets" Fluttershy with her magic in order to make everypony think Fluttershy is no longer graceful. That plan wouldn't make any sense if magical auras were visible. And since unicorns were a part of the audience it appears magic auras are indeed not visible to ponies.

I would really love to hear your thoughts on this topic!

'3.     'The Princess’s flowing manes

This is based on my headcanon that the show and the comics share the same universe. When Nightmare Moon transformed back into Luna at the end of the premiere, she was in her de-powered state.

By the episode “Luna Eclipsed”, we’ve seen Luna in her fully-powered state with a dark coat and a sparkly flowing mane like her sister’s.

Buuuut.....here’s the catch. In IDW’s “Nightmare Rarity” arc, we see Luna in her de-powered state, and she only becomes her fully-powered self during the course of the comic. One might be tempted to place the events of this comic before “Luna Eclipsed”, but there are reasons why taht is not possible:

·         A reformed Trixie helps in the final battle against Nightmare Rarity, which suggests that the events are set after the Season 3 episode “Magic Duel”.

·         Another reason is that had this been set before “Luna Eclipsed”, Luna would have spoken in “Shakespearean Ponish” using the “Royal we” and her royal voice. But she does not. Which indicates that this story-arc occurs after that episode.

Now I have a little (half-baked) theory as to why Luna reverts to her de-powered state again during the beginning of this arc, and I’d like your opinions on that.

My theory is taht the flowing manes are a result of a ponies’ incredible magical talent – whether they’re a unicorn like Mistmane or alicorns like the Princesses. We’ve seen the Princess’ manes stop moving when Tirek, and later Cozy Glow absorbed their magic or when they feel thoroughly depressed (Princess Luna’s mane stopped moving temporarily in the episode “A Royal Problem” when she saw in the paper that her scowling had resulted in the school ponies missing out on their field trip). Maybe something similar happened here. Luna, who had only just adjusted to living like a Princess, and not long after her not-so-welcome reception during Nightmare Nights was already in a very vulnerable state of mind. When she saw the return of the Nightmare forces kidnap Rarity, she sunk into despair and felt so hopeless taht her mane stopped flowing and her coat turned light (kinda like the hopeless magic that took over the residents of Hope Hollow after the rainbow generator blew up in the “Rainbow Roadtrip” special”).

What do you think about this theory? I’d love to hear your thoughts!

 Dreamstar Moonlight (talk) 17:25, August 20, 2020 (UTC) Dreamstar Moonlight


Some things I thought I'd point out:
  1. Of the many inconsistent colors of magic auras, Twilight Sparkle's aura color change is indirectly acknowledged via newly-animated past scenes using her old aura color, and Sunset Shimmer's aura color change has been explained (similarly to your theory) by Katrina Hadley.
  2. In Fundamentals of Magic#Types of Magic, Celestia mentions "the signature color of our magical auras".
  3. The show and the comics sharing the same universe is more than headcanon (even though Hasbro didn't do the best job about it).
I hope I'm not butting in. (7)6(four) (talk) 18:53, August 20, 2020 (UTC)


Hey there, (7)6(four), thank you so much for the links - they confirmed a great deal - especially regarding the change in Sunset's magic aura colour, and whether or not ponies can actually see the magic auras.

And although, the show referenced the change in Twilight’s aura, it still doesn’t explain whether or not the colour of the aura takes a while to change - as in, whether or not the colour frequently changes from a light purple to a deep magenta for a few days before permanently settling to a deep magenta (which would explain the inconsistency of the aura colours when the episodes are arranged in a chronological order and not in air-date order).

It also doesn’t explain why Princess Celestia’s colour would change all of a sudden. Unless of course you go with the theory that maybe Celestia’s magical aura had been something else prior to Princess Luna’s return, because she’d missed her sister and felt like a part of her was missing all those years. So even after her return, the colour of Celestia’s aura too began to change to a bright golden yellow – the colour of the warmth (like the Sun) – because she felt whole again after reuniting with her sister. Of course, that change would take a while to manifest (just like in Twilight’s case), so her colour frequently changed between golden yellow and some other colour before permanently becoming yellow. Again if that were the case, it’d explain the inconsistency when season 1 & season 2 episodes featuring Celestia get mixed up, when the events are arranged in chronological order.

What do you think about this theory? Also do you guys agree with my theory regarding why Luna reverted to her depowered state in the “Nightmare Rarity” story-arc?

Feel free to comment, both you and Kilmarnock228 and anyone else who might be interested!

Dreamstar Moonlight (talk) 05:48, August 21, 2020 (UTC)Dreamstar Moonlight


Another couple topics I can’t say I’ve really thought about...
Those early season episodes do make it seem as though magical auras weren’t visible to ponies. Of course, perhaps unicorns are capable of concealing their aura if they feel so inclined? As for the Chrysalis/Cadance situation, I wonder if it’s possible that different types of magic can produce different colors. After all, Celestia’s aura resembled Sombra’s when she temporarily tapped into her darker emotions in The Crystal Empire - Part 1. Also, was there really any instance where Celestia was present when “Cadance” was spell casting?
Of course, the simplest answer is that the show creators didn’t consider these types of things due to the show’s intended audience, and that certain inconsistencies have cropped up as the series evolved.--Kilmarnock228 (talk) 20:53, September 3, 2020 (UTC)


I’m so terribly sorry for replying almost weeks late! Things have been very hectic here, what with the pandemic and everything. (We’re now having approximately a whopping 100,000 new covid patients every day).

As for your idea, I highly doubt Twilight was even aware that such magic portals existed, or even if she was aware, she wouldn’t have known how to use one. She was still struggling with teleportation magic (as evident when she tried to teleport them all while fleeing from the chasing dragons). I much preferred your original theory that Spike travelled part of the journey by train or took a ship; while Twilight and the others followed soon afterwards.

Also, I don’t recall reading any of your comments relating to magic auras in the page on "Magic".

Did you mean a separate page? I’d very much like to read them!

Again, my sincere apologies for not replying sooner!

Dreamstar Moonlight (talk) 14:34, September 19, 2020 (UTC)Dreamstar Moonlight

Dragon Quest: Dragon Lands?

In the episode Dragon Quest, we see Spike following the dragon migration until he reaches what appears to be the Dragon Lands.

MLP The Movie background art - Expanded map of Equestria.jpg

Looking at the map of Equestria, you can see just how far the Dragon Lands are from Ponyville. It would take weeks to get there on foot! But the episode seems to hint it didn’t take Spike more than a couple of days to get there. And I hardly think Twilight and the others would travel weeks in that ridiculous get-up without spike noticing. And wouldn’t Spike get dead tired walking day in and day out weeks and weeks? And moreover, how on earth did he manage to keep up with those flying dragons on foot? Wouldn’t they have passed by before Spike could take a few steps? And at the end of the episode, when Twilight and the others teleport themselves out of danger – surely they didn’t teleport all the way from the Dragon Lands to Ponyville? But the episode makes it look like it wasn’t that far  after all.

 

All this leads me to question whether the place in the episode we saw really were the Dragon lands or was it just a pit-stop for the dragons? Somewhere not so far from Ponyville.

 

Even if that were the case, there aren’t any snowy mountains near Ponyville. But the episode shows Spike journeying across snowy mountains, rivers and forests. The rivers and forests I can put down to somewhere close to Ponyville, but I have no idea where those mountains came from. Unless those were the Crystal Mountains, and Spike really did go to the Dragon Lands by that route. Which begs the question: how long as he gone? Did Twilight help Spike along the way, unbeknownst to him? By teleporting them all in many bursts whenever Spike (probably) took a small nap or something? That would explain why Spike never lost sight of the dragons even though he was walking most of the way.

 

I’d really love your thoughts on this matter!

Dreamstar Moonlight (talk) 10:11, September 3, 2020 (UTC)Dreamstar Moonlight


Well, part of the issue may lie in timing. The episode came out in 2012, three years before the map. I doubt there even was a map back in the day, and certainly many locations on the later one would not have been on it. That being said, there appear to be a number of snowy mountains Spike could have passed though without going anywhere near the former/future site of the Crystal Empire. To me it seems likely that he did one of two things: traveled by train at least part of the way offscreen, or took a ship part of the way offscreen.
Based on the latter theory, I would guess Spike headed east out of Ponyville and crossed over Rambling Rock Ridge, eventually reaching Fillydelphia or Baltimare where he boarded a ship. This got him to the Dragon Lands, where he got a raft ride from Cranky to help him along as well. Finally he arrives at the volcanos, having presumably caught up to the flocking dragons with his water travels. At least based on the wiki screenshots, there’s no actual evidence that he kept them in sight the entire length of his travels.
As for the train travel theory, if he took that route the 2015 map indicates he could have gotten at least as far as Griffonstone-farther if you consider the existence of the train line and station from Sounds of Silence. It’s possible, then, that he traveled on foot the remainder of the way. Even the more detailed maps of the series locations seem fairly basic-there’s plenty of information missing. The maps in general seem to be more art pieces than complete guides to navigating the various locations.
As for his pony pursuers, it seems likely that they followed him at a distance, during which time Rarity presumably created the costume before they eventually donned in in the Dragon Lands. That would explain why the outfit seems so hodgepodge, despite Rarity’s demonstrated skills as a seamstress. As for the return to Ponyville, we don’t really know the limits of pony teleportation so it’s within the realm of possibility. Looking at future seasons, Twilight seems to have been able to teleport herself from Canterlot to the Crystal Empire, and herself and the rest of her friends back again with little trouble.--Kilmarnock228 (talk) 20:53, September 3, 2020 (UTC)

That's very well thought-out indeed! I'm inclined to agree with you. Buuut....I just found another catch - somethig that's not worth worrying about.

We see in the episode Ddragon Quest that Spike rescued the phoenix egg from the woods that were quite close to the Dragon Lands. So that's Peewee's birthplace. We also see Spike returning Peewee to his parents in  aphoto-frame in the episode "Just for Sidekicks". So unless, Spike trvelled all the way to the Dragon Lands to do that - which isn't possible if you try to squeeze the entire first 3 seasons into 1 year, I rather think the place Spike visited in this episode was merely just a pit-stop for the Dragons, somewhere close to Ponyville. But it is certainly possible if you assume Spike took a train or ship all the way or if Twilight teleported them, in which case he'd be able to return Peewee and be back in Ponyville within the same day.There is no way that he managed to travel to the Dragon Lands and back in the course of a single day on foot.

Also, we see in the episode Molt Down that Rarity and Spike visited the woods again. Spike even met a grown-up  Peewee. And when Peewee stried to 'hug' Spike, it irritated his stone scale. When Rarity suggests seeing Zecora, but Spike is certain his stone scale will clear up after 'a good night's sleep'. We then see Spike the following morning in Twlight's castle. It's perfectly possible to teleport or take a ship or train for most of the way,at least.

So either way, your theory fits! Dreamstar Moonlight (talk) 16:42, September 4, 2020 (UTC)Dreamstar Moonlight

Another thought occurs to me: perhaps the travelers could have employed some kind of magic portal, akin to those Chancellor Neighsay could open with his amulet or that the final three villains were able to open with the power stolen from Grogar.
By the way, did you see my comments under the section on auras?--Kilmarnock228 (talk) 04:15, September 7, 2020 (UTC)

when did Starswirl Disappear? Tying together Comics & Show canon.

This is such a tricky topic and I’ve been trying to come up with a plausible reason for the discrepancies in the timeline.

From what I’ve gathered from the “Fictional Chronology” page in the wikia (https://mlp.fandom.com/wiki/Fictional_chronology):

Ø  Starswirl takes a young Clover the Clever under his wing (not literally) and acts as his/her mentor. (Pre-Equestrian Era) (Season 2 episode, “Hearth’s Warming Eve”)

Ø  Clover the Clever grows to be a moderate magic-user and undergoes seven trials. (Equestria Girls special, “Forgotten Friendship”)

Ø  The Long Winter occurs and ‘Equestria’ is founded by the three pony tribes. (Season 2 episode, “Hearth’s Warming Eve”)

Ø  Tirek and Scorpan arrive to Equestria intent on stealing magic. Scorpan befriends Starswirl and other ponies, and betrays his brother. Tirek banished to Tartarus for his crimes. (Season 4 finale, “Twilight’s Kingdom”)

Ø  Starswirl and Pillars, in their attempt to defeat the Pony of Shadows, sacrifice themselves and they all get trapped in Limbo for thousands of years. (Season 7 finale, “Shadow Play”)

Ø  Discord's (and Cosmos’s) reign begin. Cosmos is defeated and trapped in the stars, while Discord later takes the blame after causing some more chaos on his own. Celestia and Luna turn him into stone using the elements of Harmony. (Season 2 premiere, “Return of Harmony” and IDW comics’ “Cosmos” story-arc, #75-78)

Ø  Luna becomes Nightmare Moon, and Celestia banishes her to the Moon. “Return of Harmony” (Season 1 premiere, “Friendship is Magic”).

Now here’s where things start to get wonky.

According to IDW comics (Reflections arc: https://mlp.fandom.com/wiki/Reflections), Starswirl was still with Celestia after Nightmare Moon’s banishment (see Reflections story-arc). In fact, it was Celestia’s continual visits to the other realm to visit alternate-Sombra, just so she could spend time with alternate Luna (because her Luna was trapped in the moon) that annoyed Starswirl and eventually created a rift between them.

But according to show canon (Season 7 finale, https://mlp.fandom.com/wiki/Shadow_Play_-_Part_1),Starswirl and the other Pillars ‘disappeaed’ sometime during the ‘Ancient Equestrian Era’, even before Discord and Cosmos rose to power – long before Luna’s transformation into Nightmare Moon.

Now, laying aside the obvious reason that “the earlier comics aren’t canon!”, I was trying to think of an in-universe explanation. I recalled having a similar conversation with you and some others in the comments section of “Siege of the Crystal Empire” (https://mlp.fandom.com/wiki/Siege_of_the_Crystal_Empire), where I suggested that all these discrepancies are as a result of Twilight’s and Starlight’s time-travel shenanigans in the season 5 finale.

For the sake of convenience, I’m going to copy-paste my original comment , but with some slight modifications:

“Imagine the timeline as a coffee-cup. Once it gets broken into pieces, you can never quite put ot back together. Sure, even if you manage to glue all the broken pieces together, it still wouldn't be the same intact cup, right? The cracks will remain. This is basically what happens. When Starlight changed the past multiple times, she fractured the timeline - badly. So even though she reset things, the "restored" timeline is not the "original" timeline. And nopony (not even Starlight and Twilight) remembers that it was ever any different. Those two might have, if any talk of a "still evil" Sombra was brought up not very long after their time-travels. But the longer they stayed in the "restored" timeline; their minds got aligned to the new timeline, which gradually became concrete and permanent. Even though it greatly resembled the original in many respects, there were some crucial differences:

1) In the restored timeline, "Siege  of the Crystal Empire" never happened. Sombra was never brought back; he remained "dead".

2) In the "original" timeline, Starswirl the Bearded alone banished the Sirens to the human world. He never met the other Pillars. (FIENDship is Magic comics). However in the "restored" timeline, Stygian assembled the Pillars and together, they defeated the Sirens (Season 7 finale "Shadow Play").

3) In the "original" timeline, as Starswirl the Bearded never met the Pillars, he never fought the Pony of Shadows and thus never got trapped in limbo. As such, he was still around when Luna became Nightmare Moon causing Celestia to banish her. This is what we see in the Reflections arc. How long after that he was around, we will never know. It’s evident that he certainly wasn’t alive when the events of the show started, so whether he did ‘vanish’ for some other reason or pass away at some point is anyone’s guess. It is also possible that the events of Shadow Play played out much later in the original timeline – and Starswirl and the Pillars ‘disappeared’.                                                                    

In the "restored" timeline though, events unfolded pretty much exactly as we know how they did in the episode Shadow Play: Starswirl and the Pillars planted a crystal seed right before they left for their final encounter with the Pony of Shadows (which later grew into the Tree of Harmony), and got themselves trapped in limbo, effectively ‘disappearing’ suddenly, long before Luna’s transformation into Nightmare Moon.

4) As for the origins of the Tree of Harmony, well, I think that such a powerful entity wasn’t affected by Starlight’s and Twilight’s time-travels. In both the timelines, The Tree was planted by Starswirl and the other Pillars, much like how you suggested in your original  theory during one of our early conversations (and I quote):

'''The Journal of the Two Sisters indicates that the Tree was already ancient by the time Celestia and Luna became princesses, as there were legends about it that Celestia knew of. This inspired my proposal that he went back in time to plant it. However, this can’t really be the case if Star Swirl battled the forest during his lifetime.

There are only a few ways I could potentially see my theory still working. One, Star Swirl was around even longer than we think he was. (I think we can all agree that Starswirl somehow found a spell of longevity and used it on himself. This is extremely likely, given his genius intellect, his research with time travels and his enthusiasm with alternate parallel universes). He fought the forest until his future self planted the Tree of Harmony. Eventually he discovered it and, kind of like with the Cutie Map, realized that it contained his magic. Later, after meeting the other Pillars, he realized they all needed to take part in creating it.

This is what I consider the most likely, most possible and most probable theory.

 

Alternatively, it could be that Star Swirl planting the Tree fulfilled some kind of Alicorn prophecy. If this is so, the Tree may actually have been fairly new when he showed it to the princesses, even if he travelled back in time to plant it. Possible, of course. But I much prefer the former theory of time-travel. Star Swirl invented time-travel magic.

 

Of course, the simplest, of most depressing, way to reconcile my theory with the season nine premiere is if Star Swirl was lying to the Mane 6 so they’d leave to stop Sombra. Celestia and Luna might even have been aware but backed him up based on some foreknowledge of the future he shared with them. Of course, that idea makes them all seem fairly deceptive, unless Star Swirl has lied to the princesses as well. Highly unlikely, I think!

What do you think about all this? Of course, all this is pure conjecture, but it’s rather fun to have a intricate timeline, slightly messed up by time travel stuff (I’m a huge DC fan, where time-travels always results in some form of soft reboot – either erasing 10 years of continuity or creating new origin stories for established characters).

Do you think my theory makes sense, and (somehow manages to) merge the show and comic continuity?

I must add here that I thoroughly enjoyed your little theory as to why Starswirl’s behaviour and attitude in the IDW comics is quite different from the show’s.

In FIENDship is Magic #5, Star Swirl gets bitten by a bug from the same pool that produced the Changelings. The way I see it, this bite may have had an effect on Star Swirl that could have affected him for a number of years-after all, the same comic indicates that Chrysalis is over a thousand years old, so why couldn't something from the same source have a long-lasting magical effect? The results of this effect are, essentially, certain differences in personality and appearance between his various depictions. His reason remains unaffected, and the only resolution to the effect was to let it run its course until he could become old grumpy-saddle again.

I think it makes a whole lot of sense!!! Great work!

 

P.S.: I tried to leave a reply on our previous discussion about magic auras and travel times, but for some reason or the other, it simply won’t get published. So I’m going to leave my original reply here:

I’m so terribly sorry for replying almost weeks late! Things have been very hectic here, what with the pandemic and everything. (We’re now having approximately a whopping 100,000 new covid patients every day).

As for your idea, I highly doubt Twilight was even aware that such magic portals existed, or even if she was aware, she wouldn’t have known how to use one. She was still struggling with teleportation magic (as evident when she tried to teleport them all while fleeing from the chasing dragons). I much preferred your original theory that Spike travelled part of the journey by train or took a ship; while Twilight and the others followed soon afterwards.

Also, I don’t recall reading any of your comments relating to magic auras in this page: https://mlp.fandom.com/wiki/Magic

Did you mean a separate page? I’d very much like to read them!

Again, my sincere apologies for not replying sooner!



Dreamstar Moonlight (talk) 15:54, September 19, 2020 (UTC)Dreamstar Moonlight

My aura comments were made on this page, under your own post. It’s that section where I talked about aura colors being influenced by the type of magic cast by their user.
I utterly reject the Cosmos arc as being even remotely canon. It’s completely contrary to Discord’s initial personality and disrespectful to his character arc from the series.
Regarding Reflections, I don’t believe the arc ever stated that Star Swirl was around after the Nightmare Moon incident. As I remember it, he and Celestia were traveling together before it happened. The arc mentions that Luna was growing distant from Celestia, a prelude to her eventual rebellion. The friendly attitude of “Dupluna” was part of what led Celestia to keep visiting the other world. However, in the beginning it was only because her own Luna seemed to be distancing herself, not because she had been banished to the moon.
My view of reconciling the comics and series plays out this way, without the whole “Starlight broke time” concept:
  • After Stygian is cast out from the Pillars, one of two things happens. Either it takes some years before he stumbles across the Well of Shade and eventually emerges from it as the Pony of Shadows and confronts his old friends, and/or his conflict with the Pillars takes place over a number of years. The recording of his banishment includes him stating that he “embraced [the Darkness] so long ago”, clearly indicating that he’s been the Pony of Shadows for some time.
  • After Stygian is cast out, the Pillars maintain their alliance but presumably pursue their own lives and interests at the same time. This includes Star Swirl resuming his travels around Equestria, at which point he encounters the Changeling birthplace and the bug bite that I suggested may have affected his personality.
  • Star Swirl eventually returns to his earlier interest in Interdimensional travel, while the maturing Celestia and Luna start to grow apart due to Celestia being favored by the general populace. Upset about this, Celestia is easily persuaded to join Star Swirl in his travels.
  • The events seem in Reflections flashbacks occur, but Luna has still not become Nightmare Moon and Star Swirl remains in Equestria. However, he returns to his more typical personality as the bug bite’s effects at last wear off.
  • The Pillars meet at the Castle of the Two Sisters only to be attacked by the returning Stygian. After a period of conflict they cast the spell that takes them all to limbo.
  • Perhaps temporarily reconciled by their mutual loss of Star Swirl and United by the responsibility of ruling/defending Equestria, Celestia and Like ma face such menaces as Sombra and Discord.
  • Eventually Luna’s long-simmering resentments boil over, she becomes Nightmare Moon, and is banished. Celestia, who has been secretly continuing to visit Reflections Equestria throughout this whole period, does so even more willingly due to being separated from her real sister.
  • The passage of time and Star Swirl’s penchant for secrecy results in a number of historical corruptions. These include the Pillars and Pony of Shadows being largely forgotten or dismissed as myths, with the notable exception of Star Swirl.
  • The story of the Sirens from FIENDship is essentially what Disney now says of the works under the Star Wars Legends label: it’s an account someone made up about Star Swirl and the Sirens, in this case due to the lack of actual historical information. Clearly certain embellishments were also made; I can’t imagine season seven and onwards Star Swirl inventing rap music.

It has been a while since I read Reflections, so I could be misremembering things.--Kilmarnock228 (talk) 20:15, September 19, 2020 (UTC)

You make some very interesting points!

I’m especially inclined to accept your headcanon that the events as described in the FIENDship issue about how Starswirl banished the Sirens could be just an embellished account someone made up, given the lack of actual historical information.

[And let’s forget about Cosmos ever being involved; her presence is irrelevant anyway. What matters is that since the Royal Sisters defeated Discord together using the Elements of harmony, and later Sombra, Starswirl was still around then.]

How I wish the events would have played out exactly as you stated, without having to rely on time-travel for the discrepancies in the timeline! But alas, the comic clearly states that Celestia banished Luna to the moon, some time during the course of their travels. Let me elaborate:

When Celestia and Starswirl met alternate Sombra for the very first time, Starswirl wonders if somepony called Sombra could be evil in their own world, when alternate Sombra states that the Celestia in the alternate realm is evil.  Take a look:

 

https://i.imgur.com/1Yec5yu.jpg
Fig.: Starswirl wondering whether they might have an evil version of Sombra back in their world


So I think that it wasn’t until later that Celestia and Luna encountered and defeated the evil  Sombra of their world (let’s call it Equestria-Prime). Thus, Luna was still around when Celestia and Starswirl began their inter-dimensional journeys to parallel universes.

During the course of their travels, Luna must have felt left-out and shunned, causing her to fall deeper into depression until she gave in to the darkness and transformed into Nightmare Moon, causing Celestia to banish her.

After her banishment, Celestia’s visits to Equestria-Reflections became more and more frequent - until Starswirl finally put a stop to it. So Starswirl is still around after Luna’s banishment. Take a look at the following panels:

 

https://i.imgur.com/0y919qU.png
Fig.: Celestia admits to Luna that “after she (Luna) was gone”, Celestia started going to the mirror world without Starswirl.


And notice how indignant our Luna was when she found out in the present day:

 

https://i.imgur.com/DqC5IIR.jpg
Fig.: “You could have brought me back from the moon!” she exclaims.


 

https://i.imgur.com/TQeUnwy.png
Further evidence that Celestia had already banished Luna


So I think it’s fairly certain that Starswirl the Bearded was around for quite a long time, even after Luna’s banishment.

Also, the points you made still don’t explain what happened to reformed Sombra and Radiant Hope after the events of “Siege of the Crystal Empire”. What exactly could have happened that led to everypony forgetting about the events of Siege before the season 9 premiere, if the entire arc didn’t get wiped out as a result of time-travels?  I’m not really a fan of dismissing comics as non-canon, regardless of whether the comics contradict show continuity or produce weak stories. So I’m really struggling to find a third possible, probable and likely solution, that doesn’t involve the characters straying too far away from their established personalities, or suffer an acute case of amnesia-of-sorts.

Honestly, I liked your streamlined theory so much – oh, why did the Reflections arc have to specifically state that Starswirl was around long after Luna’s banishment?! This is one hell of a muddle!

If you do have any more ideas, do share them with me! Take your time though.

 P.S.: And yes, I did read about your comment on auras, and I’m inclined to agree with your ideas They make a lot of sense!

Dreamstar Moonlight (talk) 15:16, September 20, 2020 (UTC)Dreamstar Moonlight

Hm, that does indeed present a problem, and is a pretty definite case of retconned material. About the only ways I can think to reconcile that statement with the canon later established by the series, without some kind of time travel ripple effect, are as follows. One, Celestia and Luna have been around so long that, despite their apparent vigor, their memories aren’t always perfect. The events happened over a thousand years previously, so it’s possible they’re both just misremembering the timing of certain things. Or Luna, ignorant of what transpired during her banishment, may think Star Swirl came back while she was gone before disappearing again, and thus doesn’t contradict Celestia’s statements.
That second point could also play into my second theory: that Celestia was somewhat confused both by the injuries she suffered at Fauxlestia’s hooves, and her emotional turmoil over the whole situation. The fate of her true love and both their worlds is at stake, it’s mostly her fault, and she can’t do anything about it herself-not exactly a recipe for remembering things clearly. My final theory is a bit of a variation on the time travel proposal; however, this is based on dimensions instead. Essentially, the instability between the two Equestrias is affecting not only the worlds physically, but also Celestia’s mind. Other ponies may have been affected off-panel, or she could be suffering the ill effects because she’s the one who has traveled back and forth between them most often.
My last comments were aimed primarily at addressing the contradictory information surrounding Star Swirl. With regards to Siege of the Crystal Empire, the alternative I favor to time being distorted is an active malevolence at play. Before the season nine finale, my thought was that Grogar could have blocked everyone’s memories of Siege and created a clone of evil Sombra in order to take advantage of the fear Sombra’s return would induce. With the revelation that season nine Grogar was an impostor, I revised the idea.
In the new version, the real Grogar still blocked everyone’s memories, but he-through some means-is the one who gives Discord the idea to impersonate him and create the Sombra clone. This serves for part of the explanation for season nine Sombra’s inconsistent depiction with his earlier appearances: he’s an amalgamation of the darkness the real Sombra rejected in Siege and Discord’s chaos magic. Of course, the plan failed and Discord’s assembled villains were defeated, leaving the true Grogar to stew over what to do now. Meanwhile, the real Sombra and Hope, blissfully unawares of what’s going on back home and forgotten by everyone, continue to scour the...globe?...for Princess Amore’s lost fragments. It’s an unsurprisingly lengthy task, given both how many pieces there probably are and how long they’ve had to become even more scattered than when Sombra first smashed her.
Glad you’re enjoying the discussion. By the way, what’s with all the text formatting whenever you comment? ImperectXIII made note of it on an edit, and I’ve been wondering about it myself.--Kilmarnock228 (talk) 20:18, September 20, 2020 (UTC)

Your points about Celestia misremembering things - either due to the actual events taking place thousands of years ago, combined with the fact that she was under a great deal of emotional pressure makes sense. Not sure why Luna would just assume Starswirl came back only to disappear again - but I guess it works.

As for your theory that the real Grogar must have been pulling the strings offscreen is kinda far fetched, but it still works. I suppose he could have implanted the idea in Discord's brain somehow, and it does explain why Sombra turned from a cool, menacing villain to a goofy, whiny one.....if you beleive that the 'Sombra' Discord 'resurrected' was some kind of clone that only represented his true counterpart. And it's completely beleivable that the reformed Sombra and Hope are probably on the other side of the globe, so they'd be unaware of what's going on in Canterlot.

The only catch here is where exactly was Grogar operating from? Is he even still alive? If the Season 10 comics so much as give an indirect throwaway hint that the real Grogar is still out there somewhere - it would really clench things!

And you can safely say that whatever planet Equestria is on - it's round, just like our Earth. It's geocentric - meaning that the Sun and the Moon (and other planets) rotate (or are made to by Celestia and Luna) around it. Look at the picture: surely that's a model of their solar system?

And the entire physics of how Celestia and Luna are able to 'raise' the Sun and the Moon have been researched in great depth by the folks over at mlpforums.

Here's a link to one of those 'theories' (this one is my personal favourite).

https://mlpforums.com/topic/183403-how-does-the-equestria-solar-system-look-like/

And by the way, I was myself wondering about the 'text formatting' issue. I suppose it's because I usually type out my posts in MS Word (Times New Roman, Font size:12, justified) and then copy-paste it here. I only do that for long posts (and not just any comments or replies), because I'm more used to working with MS Word, and I can easily correct any glaring grammatical errors or spellings before I officially post it here. (I'm very conscious about it because I'm not a native English speaker, and I don't want to come across as such. Though you've probably already guessed it by now, given my limited vocabulary). I apologize if my 'text-formatted' posts were distracting - I'll see to it that it doesn't happen again.

Dreamstar Moonlight (talk) 16:49, September 21, 2020 (UTC)Dreamstar Moonlight

The formatting thing isn’t a big deal; I was just curious. I like to use the source editor when I make posts, and that does make it rather more obvious. I understand wanting to make use of a method where you can save your work. Although, if you copied your work into the source editor-unless you’re already doing that?-it might help with the formatting.
The Luna Star Swirl thing is admittedly an assumption. While I’m sure Celestia has been trying to catch her up on everything important she missed, there’s undoubtedly some things that she still doesn’t know. The sisters have a high opinion of Star Swirl, so when Celestia makes that erroneous comment I figured Luna would just guess that he returned eventually and didn’t comment. Star Swirl seems like he was probably rather like Gandalf: popping off on adventures or errands for months or years at a time and then reappearing unannounced as though he’d never been away.
Speaking of Gandalf, the works of Tolkien may be part of why I was unsure about the shape of...whatever Equestria’s planet is called. Tolkien’s mythology includes what I think is an interesting and hilarious concession to all the folks who ever believed that the Earth was flat. It used to be flat, but then a divinely prompted cataclysmic event made it round. That image does indeed seem to settle the question for Equestria world-the flat maps for the series are artful, but somewhat misleading.
Yeah, the Grogar theory may be a stretch, but for me his presence would resolve a number of plot holes. We don’t actually know that he’s alive, but the fact that Discord didn’t think it was unreasonable to impersonate him and the other villains accepted him as the real Grogar seem to support the possibility that he could still be around. Crazy longevity is hardly uncommon in the series, with both Chrysalis (according to the comics) and Tirek being over a thousand years old.
For that matter, Grogar could potentially still be operating as a spirit even if he’s dead. According to Jim Miller, that was apparently the case with Sombra in The Crystal Empire, which is Mr. Miller’s explanation for why the fully alive season nine Sombra sounds different. Assuming he is still alive, the question of where he’s operating from is a good one. My top picks are either somewhere in “the Unexplored West” or the Great Iceberg Barrier, both from the maps of Equestria.
The latter seems likely to have been a place where Gusty might have had him imprisoned, as it would put him on the opposite end of the planet from where she hid his bell. I figure that, while Grogar may be stuck there, he’s skilled enough with what power he may be able to accumulate that he’s been able to influence things from afar every so often. This goes off the line from Gusty the Great which states he gains power from fear, which is the root of my whole theory about him being behind season nine Sombra.
It would be nice if the season ten comics could give us any more on the fate of the true Grogar. Of course, it’s only one of a number of things left hanging by the animated finale. And with the writers clearly set on telling new stories and not just tying up loose ends, we may be in for a long wait.--Kilmarnock228 (talk) 19:59, September 21, 2020 (UTC)

Clearly, Tolkein's work has been quite the source of inspiration for Lauren Faust while developing the show, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. She even based Canterlot off of Minas Tirith - a city built on the side of a mountain.

And yes, Grogar's presence does explain several things. Although far-fetched, it's still possible that elements of his dark power may have remained over the years - maybe these 'traces' of dark power have some form of consciousness? After all, we did see in Sombra's FIENDship issue that King Sombra's secret chamber still had a dark aura about it. Twilight and Cadance felt it too. So yeah, Grogar's 'essence' somehow being able to plant the idea into Discord's head is perfectly plausible. Maybe Discord was randomly popping all over the 'globe' one fine day, and somehow accidentally got in contact with the evil essence? That would make sense.

As for the comics, I do hope they keep going on for a while. The prequel G5 movie won't premiere until September of next year - and assuming the series proper won't premiere until Spring 2022, and if IDW doesn't cancel the MLP comics for some weird reason - we do have plenty of time for new stories as well as stories meant to tie up old threads.

Dreamstar Moonlight (talk) 16:18, September 22, 2020 (UTC)

 

 

Messed-up Timeline: The School of Friendship

Hello Kilmarnock!

So...it's barely been a few days, but I've discovered another continuity problem!

"How long has the school been running?" The timeline is messy and all over the place!

First off, take the episode Non-Compete Clause. We see that Fluttershy has been teacher of the month nine times – so it’s been nine months since the school opened. So far, so good.

Furthermore, in the short Teacher of The Month, it’s shown that Fluttershy’s been the teacher of the month 17 times - which means that some time has elapsed since the events of “Non-Compete Clause”. We can also infer that the school must therefore have been open for a year and 5 months. Good, we have a definite time-frame.

But then in the season 8 finale, when the Young Six appear in graduation gowns, Twilight tells them learning everything about friendship takes more than one semester. Now that’s something I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around.

A semester means a six-month period. Accounting for a winter break in between the fall and spring session and a summer break after the spring session, classes actually take place for about 4 and a half months. But if only one semester has passed – that means the School of Friendship’s been open for approximately 14-16 weeks.

Assuming the 1st semester (Spring semester) runs from February through May, all the episodes of season 8 that feature Cozy Glow must fall within this period. This includes Marks for Effort (Cozy Glow’s first appearance), A Matter of Principals (which is when Cozy Glow starts taking notes as soon as she learns of the magical artefacts), The Hearth’s Warming Club,  Friendship University, Road to Friendship, A Rockhoof and a Hard Place and What Lies Beneath

Now there two main contradictions:

1.   The Hearth’s Warming Club must take place in December, placing it during the end of the second semester (assuming that the Fall Semester runs from late August till December)! We see Cozy make a cameo appearance, so obviously this takes place before the events of School Raze, which is a direct contradiction to Twilights statement in that episode that it’s been just one semester.

2.   Spike gets his wings in the episode ““Molt Down” – so every other episode that shows a winged Spike must come after this. We see Pinkie giving tours of the school, so this episode takes place not long after the season 8 premiere, where we see Twilight and the others opening the School of Friendship for the first time. But later, in episode 9, “Non-Compete Clause”, nine months later, going by the picture frames on the wall, Spike is shown not to have his wings. How is this even possible?

I have managed to come across a plausible explanation for point no. 2. I found it on this page.

For convenience sake, I’m just going to copy-paste it here:

“......This is where I'll have to jump through some hoops, since Fluttershy has been teacher of the month nine times. Assuming the school has been running since February, that would place this episode at the start of November at the earliest, which means it'd have to be autumn (which it isn't). Additionally, Spike doesn't have his wings yet, so I'd have to fit Molt Down and Marks for Efforts in which he's still getting used to his wings between this episode and The Hearth's Warming Club where he has his wings and that just doesn't seem feasible, so I had to come up with some convoluted headcanons to explain my placing it earlier in the year. I have decided to imagine that initially the students got to vote for their favourite teacher each week, before Twilight decided that was too frequent, changing it to a monthly vote in March, and since the school of friendship is more leisurely, I made the summer holidays take place over six weeks in June and July, so that a teacher of the month poll would be held in the first week of June and the last week of July. So that places polls 1-4 in February and 5-9 once a month, the most recent one being in July, placing this episode in early August.”

What do you think about this explanation? As for Twilight’s statement in the finale, I have no clue whatsoever. Looking forward to hearing your theories!



Dreamstar Moonlight (talk) 16:22, September 26, 2020 (UTC)

You certainly have a knack for asking about potential continuity problems that I’ve given little or no thought to. That idea that it started as a weekly thing before transitioning to monthly seems rather reasonable. Now, one could argue that perhaps a semester means something different in Ponish than it does in English. However, as all the characters words are presumably being translated for the viewers it’s a moot point.
I think there’s actually a fairly simple, if perhaps boring, explanation. I think Twilight’s semester comment is purposefully downplaying things, so as to help the Young Six stay humble. They have just helped to save Equestria, but Twilight knows better than anyone that such a feat is only a milestone on the road of learning about friendship. The Young Six got a little hyped about their success-they are still the students, and their teachers are the ones who determine when they have learned enough to graduate.
It is a school, after all.--Kilmarnock228 (talk) 20:17, September 26, 2020 (UTC)

Yo

Is there a reason for dealteing my comments? Godzillafan1978 (talk) 03:56, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Well, I don’t typically delete comments without a reason. Why are you asking me on this wiki though, instead of whichever wiki I did it on? I don’t have the ability to delete comments here.Kilmarnock228 (talk) 18:51, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

Um Hi

Can I ask your opionion on this.

https://mlp.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Godzillafan1978/Tag_You%27re_It_Mlp_Edtion

Godzillafan1978 (talk) 05:02, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Seems like an interesting idea...don’t really know what else to say.Kilmarnock228 (talk) 09:35, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

My Little Pony Annual 2021 page 4

File:MLP Annual 2021 page 4.jpg

Do you have a source for this image? ImperfectXIII Wiki signature.png FANMADE ImperfectXIII OC pixel animation.gif 02:23, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Yes: http://majorspoilers.com/2021/04/27/preview-my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-2021-annual/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=preview-my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-2021-annual Kilmarnock228 (talk) 03:01, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Theory: Tree of Harmony origins - Part 2

Hi Kilmarnock!

Welp, it's been a while since I had any crazy ideas or theories. But after the recent revelations in #100 that the Equestrian Tree of Harmony is unique in its origins, as it was planted by the Pillars and not by the Knights of Harmony, I went to our first discussions on the topic, and found some...discrepancies.

Okay, so, bear with me. Here is a rough schematic I came up with in accordance with your [theory].

As you can see, Point C is when the Pillars go back in time to Point A. Point B is when the Tree is already (somewhat) grown up, and this is the stage at which Star Swirl shows it to a young Celestia and Luna. So what would happen when chronologically, one arrives at Point C? Does the Tree just disappear at that point, because it already exists in all the points of time before then! If it already exists, why would the Pillars even need to plant the seed in the first place? This kinda seems like the Bootstrap Paradox.

Or, is there some sort of sign that causes the Pillars to guess they are responsible for the Tree's creation, which in turn leads Star Swirl to deduce that they must go back in time to a certain date to plant it? If that's the case, I wonder if something like this went down in its creation?

Of course, this complicates matters a great deal, but another person came up with an alternate theory to reconcile the two versions of the Tree's origins, without having to resort to time travel shenanigans. Their version of the Tree's origins is as follows (and I quote):

''"The key thing is that we don't really have a timeline relationship between the Pillars planting the seed, the Sisters arriving in Equestria. In the timeline I favor, the Pillars simply join up, plant the seed, and then disperse - most of their work done - to return to their homelands or oversee the development of Equestria. Some time later, after word of the tree has spread (or deliberately been spread, perhaps) the Sisters arrive and are shown the developing tree. Some time after that, the Pillars become aware of the threat of the Pony of Shadows and reunite to banish it.

The key point here is that when they reunite, they do not return to the tree - perhaps Starswirl knew it wasn't the right time. Thus, for most of them the first time they've seen it since they planted it is when they come back from limbo!"''

What do you think of this theory? The only thing I find that might debunk this is Star Swirl's journal entry: "To stop him, the Pillars and I must make a grave sacrifice. But we shall leave behind a seed in hopes that one day it will grow into a force to stand against the darkness for all time. We must now face the fiend with the only plan we have..." ...which seems to imply that planting the seed was the last thing they did before they sacrificed themselves to stop the Pony of Shadows.

Again, if you think about it, does that really make sense? Isn't it weird for the Pillars to leave the safety of their land in the hopes of a tiny crystal seed infused with their powers that may or may not sprout to work its magic? Wouldn't it have made more sense for them to have planted the seed a long time before the Pony of Shadows became an actual threat, as a back-up safety measure? Maybe they planted it even before Stygian changed sides, as a means to ensure that the Equestria would be safe after their passing?

I would love to hear your thoughts on the matter!

--Dreamstar Moonlight (talk) 08:33, 17 July 2021 (UTC)Dreamstar Moonlight

It has indeed been a while, Dreamstar!
My proposed reconciliation between The Journal of the Two Sisters and the animated series does indeed seem to be a bootstrap paradox. I can't really say how the whole thing would go down; that's a whole theoretical field of study that I won't even pretend to fully comprehend. I would guess that Star Swirl would have been able to figure out how old the Tree was, and thus known at what point in time to take the other Pillars and/or the seed in order to plant it. The whole thing is, of course, a paradox, as it means that the Equestrian Tree of Harmony only exists because Star Swirl realized that he was the one who planted it...when from his perspective he hadn't done that yet.
That theory you shared is an intriguing one, but I feel like it doesn't quite fit with the account in The Journal. Here are the pertinent passages:
"...to me it was like meeting the most famous tree in the world. But that's because it's actually the most famous tree in the world!
"I've read about the Tree of Harmony in books, but I didn't know that it actually existed! According to the legends, the Tree of Harmony is incredibly powerful and is said to hold the elements of all that is good and true."-The Journal of the Two Sisters, p. 19
The way Celestia talks about the tree doesn't seem like she's heard about it through gossip or even some propaganda campaign of Star Swirl's; it sounds like the Tree has been known about for a long time. Unless all the Pillars, not just possibly Star Swirl, lived a lot longer than modern ponies do-assuming that modern ponies live about as long as humans-I don't see how word of the Tree, even if they helped it along, could have made it "famous" and the subject of "legends". The Journal also notes that the Tree existed before the Castle of the Two Sisters was built, whereas Legends of Magic seems pretty clear that Star Swirl didn't even know the other Pillars were real until after the castle in Canterlot had been constructed.
As far as the Pillars pinning their hopes on the seed before sacrificing themselves to trap the Pony of Shadows, I think the key word used by both Star Swirl and Somnambula is hopes. The Pillars hoped that planting the seed would leave behind a legacy to keep Equestria safe, but had no guarantees. Still, it was all they could really hope to accomplish at the time, as the Pony of Shadows was a present and urgent threat that they-so far as they knew-had no other answer for. Essentially the whole idea was an attempt to make the best of a bad situation.
Of course, an alternative explanation for the Tree of Harmony's "legendary" status in The Journal, even if Star Swirl and the Pillars only planted it recently, was suggested to me as I was wording this reply. Going back to the fact that you revisited this topic after the release of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic Issue #100, it occurs to me: what if the Tree of Harmony that Celestia heard and read stories about wasn't the same one Star Swirl showed her and Luna? By that, I mean that Celestia may have heard of the Trees of Harmony that have been introduced in the Season 10 comics. However, given the "thousands of years" (My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic Issue #92) that most of the Trees were dormant, it's likely that the mythology became confused.
In essence, this new theory would be that by the time Celestia and Luna are invited to rule Equestria, the Alicorns-and maybe most of the world's inhabitants who even know about this stuff-are under the impression that there has only ever been one Tree of Harmony. Thus, when Celestia is introduced to the Equestrian Tree by Star Swirl, she mistakes it for the mythical Tree that has grown (pardon the pun) out of the half-forgotten stories of the Trees in Abyssinia, Caninia, Cunabula, Farasi, and Ornithia. Of course, all this still doesn't account for how Equestria's Tree of Harmony could have been planted by the Pillars when the group hadn't even met yet, unless Star Swirl did a little time-traveling.
Hope everything I said makes sense; feel free to ask questions if it was unclear.Kilmarnock228 (talk) 00:15, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Hmm...you certainly bring up some interesting points. I had forgotten the bit about the Tree being present long before the Castle of the Two Sisters was even built. Given how Celestia worded her journal entry, and unless Issues #101 and #102 debunk everything we've come up with so far by giving us a whole new explanation as to how the Equestrian Tree of Harmony came to be - I'm much more inclined to accept your original theory as the most plausible explanation. Thus, time-travel being involved to some extent in the creation of the Tree of Harmony seems to be an irrefutable fact.

That alternate theory, however theoretically possible, only complicates matters by factoring in all the other Trees, and we still have only that parrot historian's word for how those even came to be. Gosh, MLP:FiM may have been aimed at kids, but the world-building and the lore is Skyrim-levels epic. Heh, even the lore that spins out of inconsistencies across different media is just as rich! --Dreamstar Moonlight (talk) 07:39, 24 July 2021 (UTC)Dreamstar Moonlight

Are you referring to Ocypete? I was under the impression that, as a member of the royal family, she was either an eagle or a hawk. At any rate, I imagine her account is fairly accurate, and that we'll get further clarification in the last two issues during the big throw down with the Knights of Harmony. Well, when a franchise has a decade or so to stretch its legs, a lot of world-building is natural-one might even say necessary.Kilmarnock228 (talk) 05:31, 25 July 2021 (UTC)